biden or ryan pat buchanan? >> they both made the case both parties have been making for a long, long time. this debate, john, was an excellent debate. ryan came and presented himself as an intelligent, personable, attractive guy, who you would like a great deal. but the star of the show was clearly joe biden. he had a number of statements he made i thought were excellent. but the issue the next day is that joe biden was boarish, he interfered, interrupted, was contemptuous and condescending to ryan and this is the talk the day after the debate. people are saying ryan won, republicans are saying ryan won, democrats are saying biden wonment he rallied a base that had been demoralized by roughing up ryan as well he could. but the second part where libya, i think those things make it the democratic party the day after. >> that may be too high octane as a negative descriptive. >> i would's hold to it. >> you are watching too much cable news television, pat. i thought joe biden did exactly what he needed to do. he ra